The Crip Trip Disability Podcast

Breaking All the Taboos with Robert Andy Coombs

Episode Summary

Daniel and Fred engage in a conversation with renowned photographer Robert Andy Coombs, a Yale MFA graduate whose work highlights graphic yet tasteful queer disabled intimacy through his candid and unapologetic self-portraits. The trio discusses the nuances of disabled intimacy, the challenges of incorporating carework into photography, and the absurdities of navigating state-provided carework.

Episode Notes

What if everything you thought about disabled bodies and sexuality was dead wrong? In this raw and radically honest episode, Daniel and Fred get intimately real with photographer Robert Andy Coombs, a Yale MFA powerhouse whose provocative self-portraits explore the erotic, emotional, and unapologetically sexual side of queer disabled life.

Robert doesn’t just pose, he seduces, challenges, and redefines what sexy means. Together, we dive deep into care-work as foreplay, navigating desire with dependence, and how disabled bodies aren’t just desirable, They’re Effin' iconic.

Learn about the seductive power of vulnerability and trust, why disabled people make damn good lovers, turning carework into connection—and sometimes kink, breaking taboos around pleasure, touch, and representation & making art that turns you on and makes you think

This isn’t about inspiration—it’s about liberation. It’s hot. It’s honest. And it’s time.

Watch the video version on YouTube

Chapters

Guest Bio - https://www.robertandycoombs.com/about 

Coombs grew up in Michigan's majestic Upper Peninsula where he spent his childhood roaming the great outdoors. He started photographing his walkabouts in middle school and moved on to portraiture in high school. Coombs received a scholarship to Kendall College of Art and Design in Grand Rapids Michigan. During his third year in undergrad, Coombs sustained a spinal cord injury due to a gymnastics training accident. After a year of recovery, he returned to KCAD and received his BFA in photography in 2013. Coombs' photography explores the intersections of disability and sexuality. Themes of relationships, caregiving, fetish, and sex are depicted and explored throughout. Coombs graduated from the Yale School of Art with his MFA amidst the COVID-19 pandemic and is currently residing in coastal Alabama.

Episode Transcription

Hold on and 3, 2, 1.

 

It's Danny and Fred. They have a Crip Trip podcast.

 

This podcast contains strong language

 

and adult themes that may not be suitable for all audiences.

 

Danny and I are in Edmonton chatting over Zoom

 

with our guest Robert Andy Coombs, who's in coastal Alabama.

 

Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode

 

of the Crip Trip podcast.

 

Today we have with us a prolific photographer,

 

Robert Andy Coombs, who we met up

 

with in Chicago

 

Under very crazy circumstances.

 

They were very difficult, but we managed, we were like,

 

we are meeting you no matter what.

 

The RV broke down. Danny didn't have his power chair.

 

It was 11 at night

 

and it was the, a weird bar,

 

but you know what? We made it happen.

 

Yeah, yeah. And we're moderately less strung out now,

 

so thank you for making the time to meet up with us today.

 

Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me.

 

Absolutely. Yeah.

 

So today I kind of wanted to facilitate a little bit

 

of a conversation around, you know, disability and intimacy,

 

and I thought, who better than Robert, who's, you know,

 

artwork bleeds with both those things,

 

You know, um.

 

Can I, um, can I just start this off by just asking,

 

could you give us a little bit of background of, of

 

how you got into photography in the first place and,

 

and just a bit of that sort of career background.

 

Yeah, I can definitely do that.

 

I was always a creative kid. I was always making something.

 

Painting wasn't good at drawing, but like,

 

or like, like finding like wood chips and,

 

and acorns and little leaves

 

and like making little sculptures for my grandma or my mom

 

or, you know, I was just always making something.

 

And in middle school I had asked

 

for a digital camera

 

and my parents got me one

 

and I started just like, kind of

 

going on different walkabouts in the woods

 

as one does when you live in the upper

 

peninsula of Michigan.

 

So I didn't really know like compositionally like

 

what I was doing or anything like that.

 

I just knew it kind looked good. Yeah.

 

And then I started

 

photographing like parties and friends in high school

 

and I decided

 

to go against vocal performance.

 

I, I really loved singing and being on stage

 

and loved acting.

 

So like musical theater and, and plays and stuff like that.

 

And then, so in my senior year when I like

 

decided against it, I, I took like multimedia classes,

 

which was like digital photography and video

 

and, you know, learning Photoshop and,

 

and all that, all that stuff and

 

my art teacher,

 

she just kind of told me like, you know,

 

if you wanna be serious about this, you need like 10 pieces

 

for a portfolio.

 

And yeah, she just kind of told me what I needed to do.

 

So I did it and presented it at, you know, our end

 

of the year art show

 

and ended up getting a scholarship to Kendall College of Art

 

and Design in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

 

Nice. So,

 

and then I went for graphic design

 

for the first two years.

 

That was my major. But then I,

 

I took a minor in photography in my second year,

 

and then I switched to photo my third year.

 

And that's where I really like fell in love with the medium.

 

'cause I was doing like, large format color, dark room,

 

so like, you know, four by five along with like, being able

 

to print my own color prints.

 

'cause I, I,

 

I'm not a big black

 

and white kind of guy. I see in colour

 

and I love, you know, incorporating colour

 

and the vibrancy of it.

 

So yeah, that's, that's where I fell in love with,

 

with photography or how I got into it.

 

Yeah. And yeah, the like

 

black and white was very much a pragmatic choice

 

on the road for us, right? Like, you know,

 

Because we could process it. Because it's easier

 

Yeah. Developing on the road, it's already dirty

 

and cross-contaminated. Like, we're

 

already breaking We couldn't have done colour.

 

Not, no. No, not possible.

 

(Danny and Fred laugh)

 

We, we did not have the shelf space.

 

But yeah, I, I agree.

 

Like I love those, those warm tones

 

and, you know, when, when colour really hits it,

 

it add something beautiful.

 

Can, can. And just for people watching this

 

that maybe don't know your full career, can you walk

 

through just a little bit of

 

what your practice has been in the last, you know, five,

 

10 years and what, what

 

and some of, some of your achievements?

 

Yeah, absolutely.

 

I, in my third year

 

of college, just

 

after I turned in, like my final portfolio,

 

I was a gymnast training a double back flip on a trampoline

 

and ended up like falling 10 feet under the back of my neck.

 

So I instantly knew I was paralyzed

 

and like I was awake the whole time,

 

which was really interesting.

 

Didn't, there was no pain and I,

 

it was just like a beautiful Michigan spring day.

 

The sun was shining, birds were chirping

 

and I broke my neck.

 

So once I

 

got out of the ICU

 

and into rehab, I quickly learned during the,

 

the independent living classes,

 

'cause they, they like teach you about your new body

 

basically and how it works

 

and, you know, different, different things of how

 

to take care of yourself.

 

And so the topic of sex came up,

 

you know, as it does.

 

And I quickly realized that my

 

medical professionals were just ill-equipped

 

to talk about sex as a single gay man.

 

So I had all these questions

 

and they did not get answered, to say the least.

 

And so after a, I spent a year at home with my parents

 

and then decided to go back to school for photography

 

and went back to Kendall.

 

And that's kind of

 

where I like submersed myself in the dating scene.

 

And, and it was a lot of like trial

 

and error, trying to figure out my body sexually.

 

And so I scoured the internet

 

basically looking for any representation of disability

 

and sexuality

 

and specifically when it comes to like

 

gay sex.

 

And yeah, just had to do a lot of my research and,

 

and found that there was like little to no representation

 

of disability and sexuality.

 

So I like right then

 

and there I was like, I am like

 

literally sitting on a gold mine of

 

subject matter.

 

So yeah, for the past

 

like 10 or so year, I graduated in 2013

 

and didn't really photograph for about five years.

 

And then when I was applying to grad school, I

 

started making my work 'crip fag',

 

which takes two derogatory terms, crippled and faggot

 

and, you know, combines them together and uses it

 

and, you know, just kind of subvert it

 

and use it as like a, a term of, of power.

 

And yeah, I, I went,

 

I got accepted into a few different schools,

 

but I got accepted to my dream school,

 

which is Yale University.

 

They have like one of the best like, art programs

 

and photography programs.

 

And then I graduated in 2020, so it was a two year program.

 

And yeah, I've

 

got a few awards under my belt, a few solo shows,

 

and I got some like,

 

exciting things coming up, which is great. So,

 

So I, when you were, you know,

 

first interacting with the, you know, intimate portions

 

of your creative pursuit, did that proceed

 

or follow you starting to become intimate

 

after, you know, acquiring a disability?

 

Like, did, did the art help you get more comfortable in

 

your own skin?

 

I've always had like a really good relationship with

 

how I looked and my body.

 

I was always a really confident person

 

and that definitely did not change after I broke my neck.

 

I still love the way I look

 

and yeah, I've just,

 

I've always had a really good positive like body image.

 

I don't know why it didn't change,

 

but I'm just like, I still look fucking hot. So, and,

 

(Danny and Fred laugh) And, uh

 

and so like, I knew that I like would be able

 

to push myself as, as far as like, subject matter

 

rather than, you know, trying to find someone

 

for a particular image that I wanted to do.

 

Just 'cause like I, I'm pretty open sexually

 

and, you know, I'm kind of willing to

 

put myself out there rather than kind

 

of just use someone else.

 

I guess I, I, you know, like when I, I I'd rather like,

 

you know, inspire the next generation to like, you know,

 

people wanting me to photograph them

 

Mm.

 

You know, in a more boudoir

 

or like sexual way.

 

So I, I thought, you know, like, I'll do it first. Yeah.

 

And then like, and then they will come so

 

Well, and yeah.

 

That, that's one way to inspire that vulnerability.

 

And that's something that's always intrigued me about your

 

work is I'm like, how does he, you know, broach people

 

coming into these like, very vulnerable situations where,

 

you know, it's overtly sexual.

 

Like what's that conversation like?

 

How do you typically find people to?

 

Well, what, when I was applying to grad school

 

and like, you know, just beginning the work

 

living in Michigan, I really had to do a lot of like,

 

self portraits with no one in them.

 

So it, it was very, a lot

 

of like isolated photographs of me, like working

 

through Yeah.

 

Just kind of like that body image, what it looks like for me

 

to be out of my wheelchair

 

and kind of playing with that notion of wheelchair bound.

 

Like I'm not bound in my wheelchair,

 

it's like an extension of my body.

 

Like, I'm so grateful Yeah.

 

For my wheelchair because I wouldn't be able

 

to do anything or go anywhere.

 

Yeah. And yeah, just kind of like

 

a lot of technology that I incorporate in my daily life,

 

different surgeries I've had to like, adapt myself

 

to kind of become more

 

independent and more,

 

(pauses)

 

the word is kind of like

 

just yeah.

 

To, to adapt

 

and kind of make myself a little bit more self-sufficient.

 

Yeah. So, yeah.

 

Can I, can I ask about the, the sort of technology

 

and the physical side of doing the photography?

 

'cause with Danny, we did a whole bunch of photography

 

with like really old out of date equipment

 

and it was pretty challenging.

 

'cause Danny is like, rewind it, like this, do it like that.

 

And I'm like, oh my goodness.

 

I don't have the, the experience,

 

the tactile experience to do these things.

 

It was quite the learning curve, you know.

 

And so in your practice, how,

 

how do those partnerships work?

 

How do those teams work to, to get such, you know,

 

award-winning stuff?

 

How do you do it?

 

Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I mean, it, it takes a village

 

any, I, I feel like any artist

 

kind of has their own creative group

 

and especially like commercial artists, like,

 

you know, a lot of, like, you think of Andy Warhol,

 

like he had a whole factory

 

of people like making his artwork

 

and then, you know, he would like put the finishing

 

touches on it.

 

And like, that still goes on today.

 

Like there are, there are painters with a lot

 

of like painter assistants

 

who like will do a majority of the work.

 

And then, you know, there's coons.

 

Yeah. Yeah, Yeah.

 

And then there there's that joke that, you know, that

 

the, the artist comes in and,

 

and ruins all of the, as the assistant's,

 

the assistant's work. (Fred and Danny laugh)

 

And, and like, that's no different than like a photographer.

 

Like, you know, people, you know, like one of my

 

professors at Yale, Gregory Crewdson, he,

 

he has lighting assistants, you know,

 

he has photo assistants.

 

Like, so it's, it's all of these, you know,

 

large, you know, it,

 

I don't, I don't necessarily have like large photo shoots,

 

but not yet anyway.

 

But yeah, I, I started working with an assistant

 

like friends and photo assistants when I was in school.

 

Other, other students were able to get paid

 

to be like one of my assistants.

 

So that was really cool.

 

And I always kind of worked creatively

 

with friends beforehand.

 

So I, I've taken a lot

 

of self portraits previously

 

to my accident and, you know, always had friends.

 

So it, I mean, it kind of just came naturally with,

 

you know, what I wanted to do.

 

So, yeah, it just, I take a,

 

a very directorial role when it comes to

 

my photo shoots specific,

 

especially like when I'm in the photo, like modeling

 

and I am yeah.

 

Just kind of doing it all.

 

But I also, you know, like work

 

with mounting a camera on my wheelchair and um, yeah.

 

Well, and you Like actually

 

like, photographing myself so

 

Well, and you still use a lot of analog too, right?

 

Yeah, I mean, for, for a certain thing I've tried digital

 

for like my street photography

 

and I just found myself like just clicking

 

everything and then it's like, I don't know, I just,

 

I'm not, I'd rather wait for the right moment

 

and like, you know, just kind of hoping that I get it.

 

Yeah. And then once I get

 

the film back, then I'm like,

 

oh yeah, like that turned out great.

 

Yeah. Rather than just like,

 

photographing a ton of like

 

hundreds and hundreds of pictures

 

and then having to like Sort through it.

 

choose one?

 

Yeah. Yeah. I'm just

 

I like the Polaroid, that was cool when you pulled out a

 

Polaroid and we put those Polaroids up in the RV that was

 

haven't used Polaroid in 20 years. Very cool.

 

Yeah. How did they turn out? Great.

 

I didn't get to see 'em after they like

 

fully developed, so

 

Yeah. I'll have to scan some.

 

They, they're a part of the living artwork

 

that is, The RV.

 

The RV. Yeah.

 

We ended up putting up a lot of our artwork just using

 

like IKEA lights on the outside.

 

And then, what was the tape?

 

It's like some really tough tape that we just like, you know,

 

Wemounted on board.

 

Oh yeah. We, reverse, reverse-sided mounting tape

 

and we, so we mounted all of our photos on mounting board

 

and then mounted them all on the outside of the RV.

 

And then we screwed in IKEA,

 

little spotlights above them all.

 

And like, I, I think we did a pretty darn good job at making

 

like this, turned the RV into like a multimedia exhibit

 

with a wheelchair on top

 

Yeah. With string lights

 

all running into our like, internal generator.

 

Like, it was, it was a little,

 

it was a little experience. The public could walk through

 

and see where you developed the photos. It was,

 

it was neat.

 

Yeah. And where, where was that again?

 

So we pulled up on a really busy street in Toronto

 

is what we Oh, okay. Yeah.

 

So by the end of it we were, we were looking

 

for gallery, but the thing is, galleries

 

and doc kind of work on separate timelines,

 

whereas galleries are like,

 

we're booked two years in advance

 

and doc is like, you have three months to make us a thing.

 

And you're like, okay. I guess

 

the pre-production starts now.

 

Yeah. So the, the differing timescales really kind

 

of threw a wrench in the works,

 

but we ended up with a really cool kind of mobile exhibit.

 

Yeah. And I think it worked for our intentions,

 

Yeah. Of doing something rogue in public, like

 

that was very in line with our attitudes

 

And we got very like a lot

 

of traffic despite it being like a long weekend Monday.

 

Oh, nice.

 

Like we got, we got quite a lot of foot traffic. So

 

I'm assuming you took pictures of that, right?

 

Oh yeah. Yeah. It, it'll be in the

 

documentary which we'll, we'll send you.

 

It'll be cool. Yeah.

 

We've got a little bit of archival here and there

 

and we'll take freeze frames,

 

Yeah. from the doc as well

 

and yeah, that's all going in my portfolio.

 

(Danny grunts then laughs)

 

That's awesome. Yeah.

 

So what, what has the response to your work been?

 

What, what, what do people say when they encounter it?

 

I mean, overall I would say it's pretty positive.

 

You know, I do get a, a few raised eyebrows depending on

 

if it's like a group show or not.

 

[Daniel] Mm-hm, mm-hm.

 

And I mean, it varies.

 

It depends on the show

 

because, you know,

 

I don't particularly want my work

 

to be seen by kids obviously.

 

'cause it's not for them.

 

So yeah, it just depends, like in the show that I'm in,

 

I guess if it's more family friendly then you know

 

it, you know, it's, I have to kind of

 

choose, you know, what, which images?

 

Well, the, I mean, it's also

 

up to the curator too, but. Yeah.

 

But, um, but yeah, I, I,

 

I feel like I haven't really got

 

too much like negative press.

 

I mean, everyone has a comment online

 

and it's kind of fun to read those, but

 

after a while it's just, they say the same things

 

and it's like, okay, if all you see is sex in my

 

photographs, then you're missing the whole point.

 

Yeah. You're not looking at 'em hard enough for sure.

 

There's so much compositionally

 

and the lighting and the tone.

 

Right? Like, there's so much to unpack in your work.

 

And that's what I really enjoy about it.

 

Do you notice? I dunno like,

 

it's just like a lot of the subject matter like,

 

nobody's seen it before.

 

Yeah. Unless you,

 

like you live the experience, you know,

 

Well, yeah.

 

Yeah. And yeah, that novelty really, really draws people in.

 

Have you noticed any differences in

 

how able-bodied people look at it versus

 

how disabled people look at it?

 

Well, yeah, like I, a lot,

 

I would say the majority of like able-bodied people

 

definitely are a little,

 

(pauses)

 

like (pauses)

 

surprised I would say. Yeah.

 

You know, it, they, they really have to

 

(pauses)

 

work hard at

 

uh (pauses)

 

kind of dealing with what is going on

 

in the photographs. [Daniel] Mm-hm.

 

So I would say a lot of people

 

learn a lot, you know?

 

Yeah. And as far as disabled people, it's,

 

you know, I've, I've had like, a lot of people reach out

 

to me and they're just like, you know, thank you so much

 

for, for creating this work.

 

You know, I, it's, you know, something

 

that I haven't seen,

 

but now I feel, I feel seen, you know, I feel

 

that that it usually gives them more self-confidence.

 

Like, to see that I just like, don't give a fuck.

 

Well, and that's, that's the power

 

of representation, right?

 

Is seeing yourself modeled in situations

 

that you might not have otherwise thought possible.

 

Which when you, you know,

 

look at society's general apprehension towards dis

 

disability and sex, you know, like you said,

 

you weren't able to find anything going on,

 

on the internet way back.

 

And it's, you know, it does give you permission.

 

So here, here's a bit of a,

 

as a disabled person. a different question, you know,

 

like fetishists and stuff.

 

Do you ever find you get a response to your work from

 

what, what are the names?

 

Devotees. Devotees.

 

Yeah.

 

Yeah. But it's, my work is too intimate

 

for them, you know?

 

'cause it, it breaks

 

it because it, it, like,

 

I'm not being objectified, you know what I mean?

 

Like, I am confronting the viewer

 

and I, I'm very intentional

 

because of the way devotees like

 

treat their fetish

 

because it's solely about function

 

And the struggle? Yeah. Like (inaudible)

 

Yeah, whether, they, you know, they want you to like

 

move your arms or like, you know,

 

the struggle born type stuff

 

or like do something that they know you can't do

 

and they get off on that.

 

Otherwise it's, you know,

 

they love like the wheelchair or spasms or

 

like medical fetish.

 

So it's like, I use all of these things,

 

but then I also like, tend to like, I,

 

I look deliberately like, into the camera

 

to like let them know, like,

 

I know you're fucking looking at me.

 

(Danny and Fred laugh)

 

And that goes with like, you know, all, you know,

 

every viewer that views me, it's like,

 

why are you looking at me?

 

Like, you know, what, what the fuck are you doing here?

 

Well, and there's something arbitrary And also like...

 

about it being used to enable your pleasure.

 

Right? Like, it's not necessarily for the viewer,

 

you're just giving them a look at what's going on

 

behind the scenes, right? Like.

 

Yeah. Yeah.

 

So it's fundamentally the priority is still,

 

But also like, I want, I want them to look

 

and I like the images were also like, made so

 

that I could get laid

 

because like seeing

 

Proof of concept.

 

(Danny and Fred laugh) What's that?

 

Pitch video. Exactly. (all laugh)

 

Instead of just talking about it.

 

Like, people get to visually see what it, what it entails.

 

And I think that like helps people

 

realize like, oh yeah, like

 

you can fuck and you should fuck.

 

And it's really hot.

 

Yeah. So

 

You're doing god's work, putting it

 

Up.

 

I'm just trying, I'm just trying to get other, you know,

 

other disabled people laid. There you

 

Go.

 

That's as good a cause as any, well,

 

You know, it's, it's interesting

 

'cause I, I don't think I really got photography

 

until we took that one photo that we showed you

 

that was us in like, you know, shower time, which I mean,

 

it wasn't really about sexuality.

 

It was more, I think about intimacy

 

and vulnerability And just a snapshot of

 

what we'd been going through.

 

And, and I, and I was kind of poo-pooing the photography

 

until that photo came out

 

and it was like, oh damn it, like there's something here.

 

There's something here that is a good photo.

 

We took a good photo and it's so much truth

 

and story involved in it.

 

And, and I didn't know we were walking into that.

 

I was just kind of like, oh, who cares? Photography's dead.

 

Everybody's got a camera in their phone.

 

It's the most ubiquitous thing.

 

I mean now through living this process of like, and,

 

and maybe it's because it's different

 

and that we're a team creating this art,

 

I felt very connected to what, it wasn't just you,

 

it was like a, a team thing that now I realize like yeah.

 

All that ubiquitous photography's crap.

 

Mm-hm.

 

You know, it takes, Yeah.

 

Then when there's intention,

 

it, it shows you.

 

And that was something Yeah.

 

interesting for me, watching you kind of

 

grow as an artist was watching you come up with concepts

 

of like, I want to get this photo

 

'cause I think it would be cool.

 

And then we shoot it on 35

 

and then you're like, well, let's expand this concept

 

and do it on medium format.

 

And I'm like, ah, it got you fucker.

 

(All laugh)

 

It's, yeah. It's just, it's interesting to have lived

 

that process.

 

I feel like I know so much more about photography now

 

through, through going on a photography road trip.

 

And I, and I don't think if we'd,

 

if we'd been using our cell phones to take a million photos,

 

I wouldn't have learned anything.

 

But, but through this I did learn and,

 

And, and it's, it's, you know,

 

sometimes it's this ineffable quality

 

that a certain photo has where you're like,

 

there's something here

 

that's letting me take it to the next level.

 

And then like, you're just, you were trying

 

to pour over like what about this particular shower

 

photograph, you know, was bringing it to that next level

 

of giving the audience something to chew on.

 

Right. And letting them kind of come up

 

with their own narratives

 

about what's happening in the photo.

 

But we knew we were gonna meet Robert. Right.

 

And it's like, of course the photo is like two naked

 

dudes in a shower together.

 

And like, I think you inspired us.

 

Like, you know, and that, that's, that's what it was.

 

That was the moment, the 'a-ha' moment for me.

 

Yeah. And like also when I was making the work, like

 

no one would hire me.

 

Like I knew everyone in the art community in Grand Rapids

 

and like, you know, font like telling me how wonderful I am

 

and how good I am at what I do, but they can't employ me

 

because I'm disabled.

 

Like, so I was just like,

 

when I started making the work, I was alive.

 

I was like, no one's gonna fucking hire me anyway.

 

So I might as well just make the work that I wanna make.

 

Yeah. So the images that I wanna see in the world. So,

 

So would you say that constituted your 'a-ha' moment

 

of like, I'm in the right

 

Yeah. Stream.

 

Yeah.

 

So, so that, you know,

 

and it can make people upset, which is

 

always good artwork. We love that. So

 

We love making, because if they're not talking about why

 

They're angry, no's talking about your work.

 

Like, it's just, it's not good. So,

 

But like, so you've mentioned that, you know,

 

no one in Grand Rapids would hire you

 

'cause you're disabled, right?

 

You're a prolific photographer

 

and now you're still having like employment barriers.

 

What's the kind of current state of the, the,

 

the art industry for people with disabilities?

 

I, well, I think my problems mostly come

 

with the state.

 

You know, I essentially, if I get a full-time job, I have

 

to pay not, I'm not only working for my salary, I have to

 

pay for someone else's salary

 

Yeah.

 

Out of my own money.

 

And, you know, care as you know, is extremely expensive.

 

Yeah. Especially if you want good quality care.

 

Yeah. So, yeah.

 

Like having to pay for someone else's salary is really,

 

is really hard to do.

 

And that's hard with, you know, parents

 

with two incomes like looking for childcare

 

so they can both work.

 

But, you know, it's, it's the same thing.

 

It's, except I don't have kids, it's just I have myself.

 

So I think that's, that's mainly what, like,

 

the issues I'm dealing with right now is like, I,

 

I tried working,

 

but now, you know, I am, I am

 

fighting with social security.

 

So like, oh, you so you can work. Yeah.

 

And I'm like, well, I can't make enough.

 

And, you know, it just like, I don't know it.

 

No, that is the fundamental absurdity

 

of like requiring care work.

 

Yeah. Is, is the minute you start getting ahead,

 

they do everything in their power to clot back so

 

that you're starting in square one,

 

I call it like the vortex of poverty, right. Where

 

It's, it's a paradox. Like

 

The escape velocity that you need is like, I need

 

to be a billionaire, right?

 

Because where am I gonna get, you know,

 

a hundred thousand dollars to pay for a care worker?

 

But the fundamental absurdity is when we're working,

 

we're contributing taxpayers, right?

 

And then you're creating more jobs by hiring someone to work

 

with you so that you can maintain a level of independence

 

and it's better for everyone in the end.

 

Right. We all know that it's cheaper

 

to just give people the help they need rather than,

 

you know, put them in disastrous circumstances

 

that their health deteriorates over time and then they're

 

Expensive Costing more.

 

Yeah. Like, it's, it's how,

 

how do we wake people up, you know?

 

And that, that's, that's what a lot of my projects are, are

 

Well doing, doing what we're doing right now.

 

Yeah. And keep doing it.

 

Yeah. Yeah.

 

So, but as far as like the art world, I mean,

 

I think the pandemic really kind of fucked everything up

 

and just like,

 

because so much of that, like, we're still recovering

 

with the economy from the pandemic.

 

Like, like politicians, whatever.

 

But like, that's what it's stemming from.

 

And like, you know, we're

 

all the rich people are like not wanting

 

to buy artwork right now

 

because, you know, everything's so expensive.

 

And so I, I don't know, it just like,

 

no one's buying anything right now.

 

And I don't know, like when it comes to photography,

 

no one wants to pay for it.

 

Kind of like other art, you know, like graphic design.

 

No one wants to pay for that.

 

Like, and so it's just,

 

it's really frustrating, like

 

yeah, just trying to be employed, trying

 

to like be a fine artist.

 

It's, it's hard

 

and it's like, I want, I want to like, make books

 

and sell them or, you know, make t-shirts like merchandise,

 

like, like I wanna do all these things.

 

It's just like financially,

 

if I, if I can't,

 

You can't just pick up a camera,

 

Make enough, and go outside.

 

Right? Like, you need to pay for assistance

 

and you need to pay for, Yeah.

 

potentially models. And like, once again, you know, if,

 

if you make any money, like it's, it's used against you.

 

So it's just like,

 

Like gun to your head in, in, in America

 

where they're like, you have $2,000 in assets,

 

therefore you do not need care work anymore.

 

And it's just like Draconian punishments

 

And it's like, you know, my,

 

my mortgage payment is fucking,

 

Yeah, Almost $2,000 a month. You

 

Still have all the regular cost of living expenses

 

that an able-bodied person has,

 

but now, you know, to even function to like make a meal,

 

you're needing to pay a hundred thousand dollars in

 

extra additional costs.

 

We should do a, we should do a Crip Trip Only Fans,

 

(Danny laughs)

 

Just all, all of our participants. And, you know,

 

I wonder how much my feet pics would sell for? Robert?

 

Any takers? Wait, what?

 

Probably a lot.

 

Do you know what the going rate is for,

 

For your feet pics?

 

Sorry you, you made me think there for a second.

 

Robert, thank you so much for,

 

for meeting with us in Chicago and,

 

and for meeting us again now.

 

Your work's been an inspiration

 

and in many ways, you know, very important to our story

 

and, and a real source of inspiration along

 

that journey, so thank you.

 

Where can people find you on Instagram or your website?

 

Yeah, on, I mean, just Google, 'Robert Andy Coombs'

 

and it'll take you everywhere you need to go.

 

There you go. Yeah.

 

I,I love a short, Just Google me.

 

Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you.

 

Okay, we'll talk soon. Watch on AMI TV or

 

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